Traditional Catholic Forum

Mel Gibson's wife files for divorce after 28 years

Iuvenalis — Mon, 13 Apr 2009 18:44:28 GMT

http://mobile.newsday.com/inf/infomo?view=page8&feed:a=newsday_1min&feed:c=topstories&feed:i=46265532

Forum: Secular News, Politics, & Social Issues

New Evidence on the Shroud of Turin

Belloc — Mon, 13 Apr 2009 14:37:50 GMT

New Evidence on the Shroud of Turin

The Shroud of Turin, which many (including myself) believe to be the burial cloth of Christ, has presented some interesting paradoxes. The vast majority of the evidence on the Shroud rules out any possibility of a forgery and is completely consistent with being a textile from the time of Christ. And yet, the carbon dating indicates that it is no older than 1300 years. This fact led Ray Rogers, the head of the Shroud of Turin Research Project, to declare it a fake, a reasonable conclusion from the carbon dating evidence.
But it turns out that there may have been problems with the sample used for the carbon dating. According to a story in The Daily Mail Online,

But after examining the fibres taken from an earlier investigation in 1978, Ray was shocked to find cotton present too.He said: 'The cotton fibres were fairly heavily coated with dye, suggesting they were changed to match the linen during a repair. 'I concluded that area of the shroud was manipulated by someone with great skill.
'Sue and Joe were right. The worst possible sample for carbon dating was taken.
'It consisted of different materials than were used in the shroud itself, so the age we produced was inaccurate.'

Ray Rogers died in 2005, but made a film made before his death, he conceded that the Shroud could be the Burial Cloth of Christ. A new documentary on the Shroud which includes Rogers' new findings will be broadcast on the Discovery Channel on Easter Sunday at 8pm.

Forum: Catholic News, Discussion, History, & Culture

Modesty

CarmeliteAtHeart — Mon, 13 Apr 2009 14:28:33 GMT

I've been thinking about something. You all know how some crazy men here, of which I am included, think that skirts/dresses of sufficient length are alone modest. We've all been over this time and again. I've been thinking about it and here's a few thoughts that came to me:

1. I think the issue is more about gender than modesty. The issue is more that modest skirts/dresses are more feminine than pants. I think a lot of men who think skirts/dress are more modest (when of sufficient length) probably more than anything mess the femininity they represent that has been lost. While I still think they are more modest, I do not think the difference between pants and dresses is as great as the difference in femininity between the two.

2. The argument is always raised that there is pride involved. Those who wear modest skirts/dresses always think they are better just as I've heard the same argument used as a reason to not wear a mantilla: "When I did wear it, I became self-righteous and focused on myself so I figured it was a cause of pride so I stopped." This argument is so useless. The same can be said of being Catholic at all: "While I was Catholic I was so self-righteous and thought I was better than others so I stopped being Catholic." Anything we do, wear, or say can cause us to become self-righteous. We need to then purify our thoughts and intentions rather than give up some good act.

Just some thoughts to cause some trouble on a Monday

Pax Christi tecum

Forum: Apologetics and Questions about Traditional Catholicism

Catholic life

CarmeliteAtHeart — Mon, 13 Apr 2009 13:59:23 GMT

I have a few questions for Catholics out there because I am trying to understand how a Catholic is to live in this world:

1. What kind of music do you listen to? For awhile I tried to listen to only traditional hymns (as in Rutter's music), liturgical music (read Palestrina) and classical (who doesn't love Rachmaninoff). In my mind all other music was off limits because it was secular. Thoughts?

2. What are your thoughts on television/movies/etc?

3. How many people are against video games? Why or why not?

4. I read somewhere, I think in St. Francis de Sales, that even card playing isn't good. I enjoy poker and at times play at casinos. Is that sinful if not in excess?

I am sure I am stirring up a huge pot of trouble by these questions because I think people can get really fired up over them but obviously sane minds can disagree. These areas aren't as black and white. I'm just trying to work through my own thoughts here.

Pax Christi tecum

Forum: Apologetics and Questions about Traditional Catholicism

The Saints and people in the world

CarmeliteAtHeart — Mon, 13 Apr 2009 13:51:00 GMT

I have a question that has gone on in my mind off and on; when it is on I think I am a heretic and when it is off, well it is off. Regardless...

The Saints are examples to us of how we are to follow Christ and love God, correct? Holy Church points us to them, to emulate them and follow their example. Now, when I read the lives of the Saints I am faced with individuals who sought only suffering, who fasted day and night, how prayed all-night vigils, who did incredible penances, etc. The Saints speak of finding only pleasure in God and nothing else, rejecting all of the world's allurements, etc. How do we live that if we live in the world?

Honestly, sometimes I struggle to see how I can emulate them while I am in the world. I cannot do the things they did because I have to work all day, which is a great suffering in itself. When I come home, I'm tired. Sometimes I just don't know how to relate to the Saints. They seem to be on a different level, living a different life separated from the world (since most of them were religious or priests). I don't know how to emulate them. Right now all it seems to me is an ideal that, for me, can never be reached or a way I can never follow.

I'm probably not explaining myself well. Please understand I mean no malice but I just don't know what a Christian in the world looks like and I don't know how to read the Saints any more.

Pax Christi tecum.

Forum: Apologetics and Questions about Traditional Catholicism

Dingus Day!

WhollyRoaminCatholic — Mon, 13 Apr 2009 13:49:38 GMT

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/apologia/vpost?id=2590239

I tried to bump this thread because it contains my all-time favorite sentence in Fisheaters history (highlighted below), but the bump gotten eaten by the Archive monster.

Everybody's Polish on Dingus Day! Therefore, every woman is a fair target for being drenched with water on Easter Monday. I gave my mother a break today, and sprinkled her with Holy Water instead. Most people forget that the ladies take their revenge on the guys and dump water on them on the Tuesday after Easter.

Christ is Risen!

Christos Voskrese!

Indeed He is Risen!

Voistinu Voskrese!

Happy Dingus Day, you crazy Poles! Which means ALL OF YOU!!! Everybody's Polish today!

(I wonder whatever happened to Josaphat? He was my favorite Greek Catholic Sedevacantist EVAR! And probably just about the only one in the world)

Forum: Catholic News, Discussion, History, & Culture

On adoration of the Cross

SouthpawLink — Mon, 13 Apr 2009 13:06:25 GMT

What is meant by adoration of the Cross?

The Second Council of Nicaea (787) said, "We, continuing in the regal path, and following the divinely inspired teaching of our Holy Fathers, and the tradition of the Catholic Church, for we know that this is of the Holy Spirit who certainly dwells in it, define in all certitude and diligence that as the figure of the honored and life-giving Cross, so the venerable and holy images, the ones from tinted materials and from marble as those from other material, must be suitably placed in the holy churches of God, both on sacred vessels and vestments, and on the walls and on the altars, at home and on the streets, namely such images of our Lord Jesus Christ, God and Savior, and of our undefiled lady, or holy Mother of God, and of the honorable angels, and, at the same time, of all the saints and of holy men. For, how much more frequently through the imaginal formation they are seen, so much more quickly are those who contemplate these, raised to the memory and desire of the originals of these, to kiss and to render honorable adoration to them, not however, to grant true latria according to our faith, which is proper to divine nature alone; but just as to the figure of the revered and life-giving Cross and to the holy gospels, and to the other sacred monuments, let an oblation of incense and lights be made to give honor to these as was the pious custom with the ancients. 'For the honor of the image passes to the original'; and he who shows reverence to the image, shows reverence to the substance of Him depicted in it" (Action VII, Definition: Denz. 302).

St. Thomas Aquinas wrote, "Therefore Christ's cross should be worshiped with the adoration of 'latria'" (Summa Theologiae, III, Q. 25, art. 4, sed contra). He also wrote that, "the exemplar itself - namely, Christ - is to be adored with the adoration of 'latria'; therefore also His image (Ibid., art. 3, sed contra).

Sources:

http://www.catecheticsonline.com/
SourcesofDogma4.php

http://newadvent.org/summa/4025.htm

So, my question is, is the Cross of Christ to be adored in the same manner in which the Blessed Trinity and the Blessed Sacrament are adored? The Cross seems to me to be a thing quite holy and at least worthy of veneration, but still separate from the Person of the Son of God.

What do you think? I'd love to see more sources on this issue.

Forum: Apologetics and Questions about Traditional Catholicism

renewing marriage vows

GaPeach — Mon, 13 Apr 2009 11:34:47 GMT

Do trads do this? If so, how (what form) would one do this, especially if one wasn't married in the traditional rite?

Forum: Apologetics and Questions about Traditional Catholicism

Train Station Dancing

ronyu02 — Mon, 13 Apr 2009 09:02:17 GMT

This video made me smile.

Warning: Contains The Sound of Music.

Forum: Pig Roast: Mingle and Eat Cooked Pig

In Persona Christi Scriptural or Tradition?

Iuvenalis — Mon, 13 Apr 2009 06:14:55 GMT

If you can help me with a question please read closely :) because cradle Catholics always seem to misunderstand my question and think I'm asking something else, but converts usually 'get it' when we chat for a bit, and end up with a "Hmm...that's a good question" response. There's a divide to bridge here -- anyone help?

So here's the dealio, it's kind of tough for me to phrase...

At Mass, the priest, at the words of consecration, in persona Christi, etc. etc. re-presents the sacrifice to us. Okay, where does this 'authority' come from? Please read more before answering, because I doubt what you're going to say is what I'm getting at (and that's my limitation in explaining this, but read on). So for example, in confession priests clearly have the authority to forgive sins, I can see this for example quite clearly in John 20. No problem. I get that the Eucharist *is* the body and blood of Christ, I have no problem with this, I don't doubt this, at all, please don't explain the Eucharist to me, please?

So, I've read in more than a few places, usually online, that priests (well actually it is Christ's authority) have the 'authority' (and other terms used as well), acting in the person of Christ, to 'do' the re-presentation or to make 'mere' host into the actual body/blood of Christ, and of course I get that Christ has the authority, ability to do whatever he wants: if he so desired to make flesh and blood from a wheaten, he can do that, but where does the part where the priest can do this, even in persona Christi come from? I keep reading that this is in the Last Supper narrative in the Gospels, but 'Do this in memory of me,' even if one 'buys' that the Apostles were priests in the sense that we use the term, is a far cry from the explicitness of "Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained" (NAB).

Now I'm not on an ex-Protestant Bible 'hangup' where I think everything is in the Bible, I get Sacred Tradition, and have no problem with that, but I see over and over no mention of Sacred Tradition in 'justifying' the priest as 'necessary' or even 'able' to participate in transubstantiation or to act in the person of Christ, ever. It's always spoken of as scripturally based, and I don't see it, at all, ever. Where is it? Where does this come from? The other faculties of the priesthood, particularly confession are so clear in scripture, and this action seems so central and pivotal to both the sacerdotalism and the Church and the Eucharist I'm shocked I see little to nothing on this.

I typically have discussions with Protestants, especially when they find out I'm a convert and they're usually bent out of shape at the audacity of the Church to forgive sins until we talk about John 20, or of the Real Presense in the Eucharist, until we really review John 6 in context, and it's usually "good point," but this particular sacerdotal duty is always a sticking point.

Help me with a logical train of thought here?

Forum: Sacred Scripture & Church Documents

For a friend of a friend...

StabatMater — Mon, 13 Apr 2009 04:25:57 GMT

His name is Kevin, and he's had cancer for a while. Doctors say he may only have a few days left to live. Please, pray for him. Thanks.

Forum: Oratory: Prayer Requests

I need advice...

mattman1970 — Mon, 13 Apr 2009 01:18:00 GMT

Hi everyone!

I really need some help and advice on something. My family and I go to our local N.O. parish, and I almost cannot take it anymore. Our priest isn't reverent. He adds and takes out things in the liturgy. He jokes with people in line while giving them communion. The atmosphere at Mass is more like a community social than the one Sacrifice of Christ being made present on the altar before us. He even teaches things from the pulpit that are contrary to the Catholic Faith. My wife and I leave Mass every week feeling sad and frustrated.

My wife and I were received into the Church nine years ago by a very holy priest who was very strict about following the rubics, and not changing anything. His Masses were very reverent and beautiful. So my wife and I can go to Mass at our local parish, and know that this isn't the way things are suppose to be. But we are worried about our children (they are ages 9, 5, 2, and we have another baby due in August). We are afraid that by being exposed to these irreverent Masses, they will think that this is how Mass is suppose to be. What can we do?

On one hand, we don't want our children to be exposed to these irreverent Masses. But at the same time, we don't want to simply stay at home, and give our young children the impression that going to Mass isn't important. There are no reverent N.O. parishes in our area, and the nearest Latin Mass is almost 2 hours away, which is too far to go each week on our budget.

Do any of you have any suggestions or advice? I would appreciate any help at all.

With His love,
Matt

Forum: Catholic News, Discussion, History, & Culture

Friend's Brother

tonio5555 — Mon, 13 Apr 2009 00:08:10 GMT

An old friend of mine's brother passed away, he was only about 25 years old. Please pray for the repose of his soul.

Forum: Oratory: Prayer Requests

Napoleon, my new hero

Stefan — Sun, 12 Apr 2009 22:34:52 GMT

I think he is a pretty cool guy, I would definitely be a Bonapartist in the 1800s. Down with England, long live the Emperor!

Forum: Catholic News, Discussion, History, & Culture

Something I read last night

Munda_cor_meum — Sun, 12 Apr 2009 20:36:06 GMT

I was at my local NO church for the Easter Vigil and was following along with the readings in my Missal, when I happened to peruse the following statement. To paraphrase, it described God as being Husband, Lover, Wife, and Mother, if I remember the last term correctly.
I really wanted to drop my missal onto the floor and leave it there after looking at the two bolded terms above. God as Wife and Mother? You have to be kidding me, right?
In any case, the New Agey-ness of this really disturbed me. Anyone have thoughts?

Forum: Apologetics and Questions about Traditional Catholicism

Traditional Catholic Forum

Mel Gibson's wife files for divorce after 28 years

New Evidence on the Shroud of Turin

New Evidence on the Shroud of Turin

Modesty

Catholic life

The Saints and people in the world

Dingus Day!

On adoration of the Cross

renewing marriage vows

Train Station Dancing

In Persona Christi *Scriptural* or *Tradition*?

For a friend of a friend...

I need advice...

Friend's Brother

Napoleon, my new hero

Something I read last night

In Persona Christi Scriptural or Tradition?